'Official' Drum Tab Notation, What are your thoughts? Options » Track this topic · Email this topic · Print this topic · Subscribe to this forum

[pie21]

Are we going to come together and decide on an 'official' correct drum tab notation? If so, where will it be displayed so people new to Mx submitting tabs will see it? There's nothing more annoying than finding a tab you want but having to go through and 'fix' it because it looks terrible.

My initial proposal is below. I'd say most people agree with most of it, so instead of saying all of what you think as well, just say what you'd have different instead. Here goes:

The capitals on the left are what is shown left of the page, and the single characters inside the brackets denote what's written for individual notes, and what they mean.

Universal details:
When used in place of notes on lines:
g = ghost note
f = flam
d = double roll
z = buzz roll
# = choke (cymbals only, really)

As a general rule, using capitilizations should denote the use of an accent. Whether it's on a drum (o/O) or on a cymbal (x/X), caps should denote accents. This way, you can easily convey that accent on... pretty much anything. Rim clicks, shots, hats, other percussion... anything.

NOTATION:

There's any number of ways to show what drum/cymbal each line represents, but I find the best looking one is the 2 letter abbreviation, capitalised, followed immediately by the first |, e.g. SD|- or CC|-. Abrreviations below.

Cymbals:
CC = Crash cymbal (x OR X = normal hit [choose according to intensity of hit relative to other crash hits, i.e. higher/lower pitched, crashing vs. riding, etc.], s = splash, C = china)
RC = Ride cymbal (x = normal hit, X or b = bell)
HH = Hi hats (x = normal, X = accent (just a bit loose), o = open/splash, # = close with foot)

Percussion:
CB = cowbell (x = normal hit [tip on bell], X = accent [shoulder of stick on edge of bell])
WB = temple block (see cowbell)
TD = timbale [drum] (see snare)
Note: not sure about the abbreviations for temple blocks and timbale - you don't hear them much, but they should still be defined. With multiple temple blocks, see my note on toms below (using numbers instead of 'o') - hopefully most temple block usage will be limited to single notes anyway.

As for the letters, WB kinda stands for wood block (what they evolved from), but that's very much open to discussion. If not using the numbering system, different temple blocks would be denoted as W1, W2, W3 etc., which unfortunately doesn't tell the reader much unless they understand the convention. Thoughts? This probably comes down to author's notes at the beginning of the tab.

Drums:
SD = Sndare (o = normal, x = rim tap or whatever you call it, O or 0 sometimes for really obvious accents)
HT = high tom (o = normal)
MT = medium tom
FT = floor tom
F2 = second floor tom (if necessary)
Usually this will be enough toms, but if there's a lower rack tom I guess LT (low tom) would work. Any more than 5 toms and you can just start labelling them T1, T2, T3 etc.

Also in some situations, it just saves a lot of space and makes the tab much more readable by labelling the tom line 'TT' (tom toms), and using numbers to denote which tom (1, 2, 3, etc.) instead of o for normal hit. This doesn't work if you need letters (like flams, doubles, ghosts, anything but singles really), but for simple single notes, I believe this does have a place in a tab. Of course the above alternative is always an option if you prefer.

PS:
HF = Hi hat foot (# = close with foot) - this is somewhat unnecessary considering the identical # for HH, but sometimes HF looks better aesthetically. I wouldn't want to include it in the official template however.

Music notation:
Labelling sections:
At the start of each section, put [section name] - [time it starts], preferably in bold, but that's not a biggy. A common example is Intro - 0:00. In my example below, I have Chorus 3 - 3.29.

Basically you choose the section names according to what they are, along the lines of Intro, Outro, Verse X, Chorus X (X in a number that increases by 1 for each instance, so generally Chorus 2 will follow Verse 2), Bridge, [Instrument] Solo (e.g. Sax Solo), Pre-Chorus and Post-Chorus (I don't like these names, but I can't think of anything better), etc. Just something descriptive, with a time.

Counting:
Counting notation is placed below to lowest bar, and labelled ' ' (double space, doesn't need a name), such as:
BD|o---o---o---o---|
..|1e+a2e+a3e+a4e+a|


Triplets:
Difficult in 4/4... you can almost get away with using 't' instead of 'o' and explaining what it means, but it's not at all elegant and doesn't work for triplets between drums (not to mention you can't do flams and ghosts and things). I often find the easiest solution is the change the count of the bar, for example:
SD|o---o---oooo---|
..|1e+a2e+a3ea4e+a|
. . . . . .^^^

That 3ea could be replaced with '3tt' or something, but you get the idea (it wouldn't have arrows in the tab btw ). This whole thing is very much up for discussion. Often you should leave a note just above the bar mentioning the existence of the triplets if they are uncommon in the song.

- Reflectionist's triplet method:
Easy to see triplets coming and simple enough to read. Same counting idea as above, but with the little /3\ on top as well. Personally I'd go without all the underscores between the /3\'s. Thoughts?

CODE

________/3\_____________/3\_________/3\_____________/3\
HH|x-x-x-x-xxx|x-x-o---x-x-xxx|x-x-x-x-xxx|x-x-x-o-x-x-xxx|
SD|----o------|--------o------|----o------|--------o------|
BD|o-------o--|o---o-------o--|o-------o--|o---o-o-----o--|
|1+2+3+4+5ea|1+2+3+4+5+6+7ea|1+2+3+4+5ea|1+2+3+4+5+6+7ea|

My slight alteration (to fill up this codebox - they're a fixed size ):
/3\ /3\ /3\ /3\
HH|x-x-x-x-xxx|x-x-o---x-x-xxx|x-x-x-x-xxx|x-x-x-o-x-x-xxx|
SD|----o------|--------o------|----o------|--------o------|
BD|o-------o--|o---o-------o--|o-------o--|o---o-o-----o--|
|1+2+3+4+5ea|1+2+3+4+5+6+7ea|1+2+3+4+5ea|1+2+3+4+5+6+7ea|

Repeated measures:

CODE

/---------------x4----------------\
SD|----o-------o---|----o-------o---|

Repeats with different endings:
[From Foo Fighters - Best Of You]


Chorus 3 - 3.29 ___________________________________________________
/-------x3-------| 1. & 3. | 2. | 4.
CC|X---x---x---x---|x---x---x-----X-|x---x---x---X---|x-x-x-x-x-x-X-X-|
SD|o---o---o---o---|o---o---o---oo--|o---o---o-oo-oo-|----------------|
BD|--o---o---o---o-|--o---o---o---o-|--o---o-----o---|o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-|

Changing time signatures:
Most music is in 4/4, and that which isn't usually follows the same time signature throughout the whole song. However some songs change time signature during the song, and so there needs to be some way of highlighting this, beyond simple making the bars longer.

Reflection's suggestion was to simply mention any time signature changes in the section heading, for example:
Verse 2 - 3:46 (5/8 + 7/8) - implies the verse features 5/8 and 7/8 intertwined at some point
Verse 2 - 3:46 (4/4 -> 5/4) - implies the verse starts in 4/4, and changes somewhere to 5/4
After this, the count line would be present for AT LEAST the bars where the change happens, so one can see the lengths change (see Ref's Schism triplets example above).

Another possibility would be on the side of the bars, such as:

CODE

Chorus 3 - 3.29 (4/4 -> 5/4)
CC|4|X---x---x---x---|x---x---x-----X-|5|X---x---x---X-------|
SD|/|o---o---o---o---|o---o---o---oo--|/|o-----o-----o---f---|
BD|4|--o---o---o---o-|--o---o---o---o-|4|--o-o-----o---o-----|
|1e+a2e+a3e+a4e+a|1e+a2e+a3e+a4e+a| |1e+a2e+a3e+a4e+a5e+a|

Obviously this has the disadvantage of being pretty confusing, especially if there's regular changes in time, but that's the best I've got now. No doubt someone who does more 'exotic' tabbing than myself would have their own method(s).

Lyrics:
I'm not sure about this, but as far as I know we're getting a lisence to tab, not to display lyrics. The whole copyright bunfight seems to be attacking tabs AND lyrics, so to be safe I'd suggest keeping lyrics out of tabs entirely, unless there's some really explicit reason why they're necessary. I'll chase this up.

Final thoughts:

• - Answered my first question by making this thread
• - Anything anyone else mentions that I missed, I'll edit back into this post. Any disagreements will be noted, but no permanent modifications made until there is some kind of agreement amongst everyone.
• - This is awfully long, isn't it?

[Reflectionist]

As far as time signatures go, if it's just a single change, then it's usually noticeable enough to not need to worry about it. Of course I'm coming from a tool perspective where nearly every measure in Schism is a different time signature. That one meaning (5/8+7/8) means [a measure of 5/8, followed by a measure of 7/8] looped.

Lyrics are, completely not necessary by any means, I just put them in there because, again, Tool doesn't conform to standard ideas of 'chorus' or, 'verse,' 'bridge,' 'interlude,' etc. etc., so while you can use these terms, it's better to give some sort of indication as to what you're talking about. Clearly track times are the obvious better choice; I just go with lyrics because Maynard James Keenan writes some really awesome lyrics.

Off-topic somewhat: In a later part of Schism, the tab for a section, in the snare line, repeatedly says "o-god" in it, which I thought was hilarious, because Danny's a freakin' beast.

Any more responses as positive as that ^ and it will have to be. Thanks, and I'll go make a new one. That triplets notation looks good... but if you have triplets often, it would add a lot of extra lines. Still, it's better than my current best idea.

I think the lines saved from doing your method of using repeats liberally would more than make up for the space needed for accurate, unmistakable duplet notation, as you've described above. You've effectively broken down sixteen measures of playing into four measures of actual tab.

EDIT - One more thing; I think the Drum Tab page at Wikipedia needs to be edited heavily after this is done.

[pie21]

I'm coming from a tool perspective where nearly every measure in Schism is a different time signature. That one meaning (5/8+7/8) means [a measure of 5/8, followed by a measure of 7/8] looped.

Even for Tool though, that doesn't happen too often, right? Time signature change patterns, looped? I think you mentioned that bit giving a general idea of what to expect for the next section, which would be a much easier and far more general approach, of which the exact 5/7/5/7 loop would be a subset.

Maynard James Keenan writes some really awesome lyrics.

Correct.

I think the lines saved from doing your method of using repeats liberally would more than make up for the space needed for accurate, unmistakable duplet notation, as you've described above. You've effectively broken down sixteen measures of playing into four measures of actual tab.

Fair enough, but really very few songs are so repeat-friendly. Only really very straight rock songs (as opposed to alt rock or whatever) can have that kinda thing going. But you're right, that triplet thing works.

EDIT - One more thing; I think the Drum Tab page at Wikipedia needs to be edited heavily after this is done.

For great justice. Mx will rule the world tubes!

EDIT: I just had a look at the page, and holy cow. You're absolutely right, it's terrible. And since they sourced most of the info from ye olde MxTabs anyway, we won't really be deleting anything, just updating

[Reflectionist]

Even for Tool though, that doesn't happen too often, right? Time signature change patterns, looped? I think you mentioned that bit giving a general idea of what to expect for the next section, which would be a much easier and far more general approach, of which the exact 5/7/5/7 loop would be a subset.

Maybe not so much on the older stuff, where they'd stick to a time signature, but off the top of my head, most of Lateralus (album) does, and the 10,000 Days songs do... Also, Forty-Six and 2 likes to play with your head as far as playing a 7/8 pattern in 4/4 and vice versa for a lot of the song. And I think others from Aenima (jimmy, H, third eye) do as well. Aenema itself is, for the most part, in 12/8, which you'd have to define time sigs like that instead of having a 4/4 measure and dealing with Triplets exclusively.

[Surtr]

I don't think any of this needs to be done. I think in general people should be able to read all the different forms of drum tabs. Its not very hard at all.

[Seth Shadows]

I found this very helpful, actually. thank you.

[pie21]

I don't think any of this needs to be done. I think in general people should be able to read all the different forms of drum tabs. Its not very hard at all.

Sure everyone can read them, that's not the point. The point is that there is no point in all tabs looking different, which they always do. Besides, one day when someone writes a program that converts tablature directly to playable sheet music, that will need a standard input, or things will just get messy. The first point is more important however

I can understand that you may think it's not necessary - the question is do you think it's simply not needed, or that it's a bad idea?

[Surtr]

Its not needed.

[pie21]

Lots of things aren't needed. Standards exist to makes things better and simpler. Things don't need to be better and simpler, but if you want them to (and I can't imagine why you wouldn't), then you need something to organise peoples' work.

Now that we've agreed it's not the end of the world, shall we proceed?

[Surtr]

Go ahead, but its generally pointless and won't catch on.

[Reflectionist]

Go ahead, but its generally pointless and won't catch on.

That's what they said about the light bulb.

[Surtr]

The lightbulb was also much more useful than wasting time on making a generalized way of writing out Drum Tabs.

Best of though.

[crazyguy832]

Isn't this MX"Tabs"? I thought it was.

Very good show there, pie. Only thing I want to add is that I always have a secondary hi-hat foot line. When I use a # on the hi-hat line, I usually mean you hit the hi-hat hat open and close it as fast as possible (not necessarily caring about proper timing, just trying to get that fast "shwoop" kinda sound). Also, there are some songs in where you hit the hi-hats with your hand and a foot at the exact same time (sorry I can't name any off the top of my head, but I've heard a few). It also makes things less confusing when you're doing, say, 8ths on the hi-hat foot, AND, in standard notation it's on a different line.

/my 2c

Edit: also, what about special techniques such as, say, splashing the hats together with your foot?

[pie21]

Isn't this MX"Tabs"? I thought it was.

Very good show there, pie. Only thing I want to add is that I always have a secondary hi-hat foot line.

lol, thank you. And yes, I use that secondary line sometimes too (called HF - Hi hat Foot, and goes under BD) - sometimes it reads better, sometimes it's a little superfluous. If you're just keeping time on the foot hats while playing the ride for example, it doesn't much matter which line it's on, because you don't really have to read it, so much as know it's there.

For the shwoopy sound, I'd normally put a ----o#----, but I can imagine this doesn't really explain it some times. Would it be close enough however? If you had hi hats like HH|x-x-x-x-x-x-x-o#|, then you're kind of left with the choke becoming a 16th note, not what you want, I assume.

As for hitting the hats with hand and foot at the same time... is it really that important? Could you have a note maybe to say "# on HH means foot and hand", or is there bits where it's foot only as well? Also, there's songs where hand hats and foot hats are interlaced, like "50 Ways To Leave You Lover" (the Gadd-man). I thought that would be an argument for a HF line, but when you think about it, HH|#-x---#-x---x---| actually reads pretty well compared to having half of it on top and half at the bottom of the line.

Edit: also, what about special techniques such as, say, splashing the hats together with your foot?

Good question... the easy answer would be to invent a new symbol, for example % on HH means foot splash. Of course without doing that, you can either put a --o-- on the HF line, or maybe like a --#o-- on HH, meaning choke then open (which is essentially what you're doing). Of course the #o method would be very confusing, because it could just as well mean close with foot then open with hand. Hmm.

[ryanplaysdrums]

Sure everyone can read them, that's not the point. The point is that there is no point in all tabs looking different, which they always do. Besides, one day when someone writes a program that converts tablature directly to playable sheet music, that will need a standard input, or things will just get messy. The first point is more important however

I can understand that you may think it's not necessary - the question is do you think it's simply not needed, or that it's a bad idea?

Something like what's here?

By the way, I'm in no way associated with that program, I just found it interesting.

Edited to add: I just realized the demo video on the main page uses a tab taken from the old MXtabs site, haha.

[Surtr]

When you go this far into it, its become identical to Drum Kit sheet music minus the note value, which is simply extremely simple. I don't really get why we'd bother writing all this out when you can either just make a drum tab or find the sheet music somewhere.

[pie21]

Something like what's here?

By the way, I'm in no way associated with that program, I just found it interesting.

Edited to add: I just realized the demo video on the main page uses a tab taken from the old MXtabs site, haha.

Kinda, except prettier. I'm working on something as a little practice project, and I've got a whole lot of ideas that would be, as they say, freakin' sweet. All in good time, I guess.

Btw, what's that tab they copied from MxTabs in the gif? Because I've got it as an mp3 from somewhere, but I've got no idea what it is.

When you go this far into it, its become identical to Drum Kit sheet music minus the note value, which is simply extremely simple. I don't really get why we'd bother writing all this out when you can either just make a drum tab or find the sheet music somewhere.

The whole point is that it IS identical to sheet music, minus the note values which really aren't important in most drumming. As long as you have chokes, I can't think of too many times when long notes and rests would give you any extra transciption power.

And it doesn't matter why we'd bother, because it's already written. I don't understand why there shouldn't be a 'correct' way to write tabs, the same way there is for sheet music. If some sheet music publisher decided to put the snare on the A line instead of C, and put all the toms above it, it wouldn't make any sense, and yet this is common practice in tabs.

My question is why not? If no one bothers with it, no one loses anything, whereas if people decide to be more consistent, surely tabs can only be better. As for sheet music, well good luck with finding that.

[thach1ef2]

Pie,

I believe it's a great idea to get some sort of standard for writing tabs. It's so tiring trying to read some of these tabs that people write. My favorites (note sarcasm) are the ones written like this :

1112 ---2 1212
2322 ---- 2322

What on earth does that mean? Haha

Also, I see you mentioned the snare going on the C line in the treble again. I'm not sure this is correct.

Here's what a music staff looks like.

F---------------------------
E
D---------------------------
C
B---------------------------
A
G---------------------------
F
E---------------------------
D
middle C
B
A---------------------------
G
F---------------------------
E
D---------------------------
C
B---------------------------
A
G---------------------------

Drum sheet music is written in the top half which is the treble staff. The snare goes on the B, on the actual line. The E and C are then the hi tom and mid tom respectively and the A is the floor tom. The F is the bass drum.

F---------------------------
E High Tom
D---------------------------
C Mid Tom
B--------------------------- Snare Drum
A Floor Tom
G---------------------------
F Bass Drum
E---------------------------
D
middle C

[matthallett]

http://talk.mxtabs.net/index.php?s=&sh...ost&p=11348

I did this months ago, I should probably bump it seeing as the Drum Section still has no How To page.

Nvm, they uploaded the original one from the old site, that must have only happened recently.

[thehapp4]

yes, i very much aggree that this should be the standard type of drum tabbing. im getting sick of finnally finding a song im looking for and seeing it so horrible its beyond repair. Infatc, im sick of not finding tabs for drums at all. i used to find all my tabs here. but now there are none due to the stupid liscening. why is there no love for the drum tabs??